FOREIGNER: Discussion Post #5, Spoiler Edition

[krait]

If you have discussion points for Chapters 7-8 you wish to bring up but which include spoilers, please post them here. Then link your comment in the general post, so those who want to avoid being spoiled can do so!

Comments

a thought regarding Tano

[krait]

Chapter 7 gave me an idea regarding Jago's statement to Bren that Tano isn't licensed, versus his status in later books! Assuming it's not an outright lie -- and Tano does openly use a security radio in front of Bren, after the tourists have left -- perhaps Assassins must serve some sort of in-field journeymanship before becoming fully licensed.

It would explain both his familiarity with security equipment/methods and persons, his "clearances" the aiji mentions, and Jago's comment if he is a 'student' on the verge of graduating -- a top-level student, presumably, given his assignment to the aiji's household and long-held association with the Guildmaster.

Re: a thought regarding Tano

[pebblerocker]

This makes complete sense! Jago would feel absolutely no compunction about lying to Bren if it made things more convenient, about Tano's status or anything else -- but him being a not-yet-qualified assassin fits very well.

Are we told at some point that Tano is quite young-looking? It might just be the way I picture him, round-faced in contrast to Algini's angularity; I don't know if it's in the books somewhere or just what I made up.

Re: a thought regarding Tano

[cheyinka]

That's plausible, or perhaps on the other hand he's becoming re-licensed for "outside work", after spending time working inside the Guild?

Re: a thought regarding Tano

[krait]

That would fit, too; maybe the Guild has two levels of professional, one of them a sort of "Fully Qualified Backup" who work with licence-holding teams (and/or do the "groundwork"/manage protection and defence for things like buildings and towns), and the other "Licensed To Kill" :D -- qualified for work against live targets and mobility/traveling protection for an individual?

[krait]

Once again Bren reacts well under pressure -- keeping it together while it's absolutely critical, then falling apart (shakes, anger, fear) after the fact when he starts thinking about what just happened.

It's really reminding me that this is a man whose job is, despite its singularity, considered both minor and irrelevant to most people; it's quite beyond him that someone might genuinely want him dead. Compared to the way later!Bren manages just about everything with total aplomb and faith in his team, well. I keep being surprised at the strength of his reactions both immediate and eventual.

[cheyinka]

Given what's about to happen to him in this book, and not very long from now if I remember correctly, I think later-Bren has a "well at least I'm not in a cellar with a broken arm" going for him :p

[cheyinka]

I really, really can't imagine a paidhi, even a more human-acting paidhi than Bren, being able to bring a wife. We don't even know that Tabini is married at this point; in fact except for the tourists, now, I don't think we ever see atevi paired off until we see Tabini with Damiri, and she might actually be the only spouse we ever meet. Huh. I mean, Cherryh explains that away, even this early, by saying that atevi spouses don't necessarily cohabitate, even if minor children are involved, but I guess it feels a little unsatisfying.

Apparently the idea of atevi having association with everyone is heretical because it used to be thought that naji (Chance, as opposed to Fortune) could flow through the deserving - presumably, someone with the psychological makeup of an aiji, who would feel no upward man'chi once an adult but would attract man'chi - like a lightning rod attracts lightning, maybe? Do we ever get an explanation of how Fortune and Chance (baji and naji) are different?

I had forgotten that "Babsidi" had a meaning! Lethal! Awesome. It makes me wonder whether Ilisidi's nickname of Sidi-ji has any meaning... :D

[pebblerocker]

I had the impression of baji being more like good luck, and naji being chaotic, nobody can predict which side the numbers would come down on, anything could happen, sort of a thing.

The glossary in the back of my copy says Nokhada means "feisty" -- slightly more suitable for a weedy little novice to learn on than "lethal"!

slight spoilers for later books?

[krait]

This comment is a continuation from the general discussion post regarding the child in the tourist group and atevi heights.


We learn in later books that a eight- to nine-year-old ateva is pretty much the same height as Bren, so it's possible the child who said that was pretty young. (A nine-year-old ateva is old enough to start feeling man'chi of his own, at least in the upward direction -- receiving it from subordinates; which might be something like puberty, though I don't think anything else pubertal is suggested, so it may be a stage which happens some time before physical maturity. At any rate, aside from that no one ever remarks on nine years old being older, mentally, for an ateva than for a human, which you'd think they would if there were that much disparity.)

Re: slight spoilers for later books?

[cheyinka]

My point was more that it's hard to tell whether it's a seven- to ten-year-old being indiscreet (everyone's thinking "hey, Shiri's kid is as tall or taller than the human!" because that's true, but nobody's saying it because that's rude), or a seven- to ten-year-old being purposefully rude (perhaps as a way of testing whether discretion applies to humans?).

And, of course, at this point I don't think we have any reason to suspect that the kid might be that young - ten at the lower end, not the higher, is what I was guessing before meeting Cajeiri!

Ilisidi implies that Cajeiri was on the later end of when a "normal" ateva starts feeling man'chi as something distinct from parental love, so I think it's not so much puberty-esque as I guess equivalent for humans wanting friends' approval in addition to / instead of parental approval, maybe? I am... ambivalent about whether I want to see Cajeiri going through puberty, tbh.

Re: slight spoilers for later books?

[krait]

Oooh, good point! Major fail on my part, not to have connected it with the "atevi instinctively push boundaries with newcomers" thing! I never even THOUGHT of that, it was so instinctively (one of those words Bren fears for very good reason) similar to a human child being rude-through-honesty.

That sure puts a different twist on it, especially given the ending! (I HAD wondered, along with Bren, at all those TV interviewers and tourists who never gave so much as a twitch to suggest what was wrong! Maybe the kid saw a TV broadcast about six days ago, eh?)

ambivalent about whether I want to see Cajeiri going through puberty

Heh. The thought, I admit, is somewhat alarming!

Spoilers for future chapters:

[cheyinka]

The mysterious absences of security seem arranged, to me, but arranged by whom? Is it Tabini, trying to give his grandmother opportunity to act or not act, the way Banichi deliberately gave Cenedi the chance to kill him?

I like this train of thought! Suspiciously likely. (Although maybe it's just that Bren's security is having more trouble than anticipated, given the antiquity restrictions of Malguri... Having to fetch parts, for example, or set up things manually that they normally would have subordinates do?)

Alternately, maybe they've been arranged by Ilisidi's security: testing what they're up against, if they decide to make a move against Bren?

Oh, of course. It's got to be Ilisidi's security; they've already decided to make a move against Bren, but haven't yet decided what move or when.