FOREIGNER: Discussion Post #2

[krait]

Welcome to chapters 1 & 2!

Commence discussion, now that we've met our Actual Protagonist(s?) for this trip!

1. Impressions of Bren so far? (If you can make such quick judgments on only two chapters?)

2. Thoughts about or observations on what we've suddenly been introduced to regarding the aiji's court and (now technologically further advanced) atevi society? Unlike Ian, Bren's right in the middle of it; what stands out to him, what stands out to you, and how much overlap is there? :D


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Regarding spoilers: how far along is everyone? I've read either all, or all but one, book; someone mentioned they were only as far as the third book; and I think one of us has never read any Cherryh before...? So far I've been trying to avoid spoilers for absolutely everything beyond our current reading point, so the "Spoiler Edition" post will follow this one.

Comments

[pebblerocker]

I got behind (already!) but I'm back on track now.

Something I didn't understand at all, and I don't know if it's because it wasn't explained clearly enough for me, or if I just missed information, or what: Why does Bren feel it "like a slap in the face" when Banichi says "We failed you tonight"? Clearly he's having a strong emotion but I can't tell where it's coming from, though it's tied to his throwing up. Is it that he's upset that Banichi and Jago let him down? Is it a sudden realisation that someone he trusted and looked up to is only "human"? Is he just embarrassed about having thrown up in front of Banichi, and/or thinking that Banichi wouldn't have spewed in reaction to the first time his life was threatened? It seems like a vital point of characterisation has gone right over my head.

I liked the scenery and scene-setting of the Bu-javid and the petitioners coming up the hill, their clothes and flowers and the stacks of papers with their ribbons and seals still an important ceremonial tradition despite computer records and the inconvenience of storing them. All very atmospheric!

[cheyinka]

I think he feels it as patronizing; Bren shoots (at) someone, is told by Banichi to lie that it had been Banichi who "discharged the gun", throws up in reaction, and Banichi tells him that he was brave - like a nurse telling a little boy who only cried a little bit at a shot that he was very brave, maybe?

[krait]

I read it as being mainly Bren's overemotional state -- He's just woken in panic, shot at a person for the first time, missed the target, and reacted like a total n00b, complete with throwing up and shaking and not being able to keep his mind running straight (he doesn't get why Banichi tells him to wash his hands, or claims the gun, till later)...

Banichi walks in completely calm and professional, and stands there watching him throw up (and, likely, emoting all over the place, not able to keep his face straight like politeness requires) and not able to think his way through things in order to help his staff. And then Banichi says the failure is his/Bren is brave?

To Bren, it probably felt like Banichi was rubbing salt in the wound of how he's NOT coping at the moment. Plus a probably very common human resentment of someone who's not getting emotional while you can't help but being so; least it reminded me rather a lot of how I feel when I start crying in front of somebody. D:

(I am one of those people who can't keep from crying! Sometimes it doesn't even start till half a minute after whatever hurt/angered me; but I can't lock it down and turn it off the way some people do. So I stand there sniffling and feeling horribly embarrassed that I can't control it like a grownup, and wishing that the grownup witnessing this was anywhere else so they wouldn't be STARING at me while I fail at being calm and rational.) Or, as cheyinka says, patronising -- like Banichi doesn't expect a human to act like a grownup, because Bren can't possibly be as rational/useful/reliable as an ateva in situations where Banichi's under pressure and could use some backup. (Rereading, I notice he keeps re-instructing Bren regarding the "say that I fired" thing; I think he's noticed Bren isn't tracking well, and he seems a little bit nervous, on top of hiss security-related tension, about the whole the paidhi had a hidden contraband gun thing!)


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Also, quite possibly, atevi don't have such severe reactions to violence; at least not by the time they're adults, so Banichi may just be baffled and not sure what to say. Atevi seem... well, if you're as far as chapter 6, (some spoilerish speculation on atevi and aggression reactions) over on the Spoiler Post.

[krait]

Heehee, I love the archives and their beribboned documents and crush-the-palace voluminousness. :D It's one of those things that makes me want to like the atevi (and really like them, in the worldbuilding sense) -- their paperwork is just as massive as a human bureaucracy, but so much prettier and more personal. Not just piles of printouts in manila folders; they have ribbons and seals and this whole different way of viewing paperwork and official-ness.

ribbons and wax and seals, oh my

[cheyinka]

The whole paperwork and ribbons and seals thing has inspired me to make a metroid-wax-seal image (not an actual Metroid signet):

Re: ribbons and wax and seals, oh my

[krait]

Heehee, that's awesome! I have a weakness for signet rings, definitely. :D

Man, something about Foreigner really makes me crafty, too -- I have two and a half versions of message cylinders lying about, and a vague urge to make Ragi-coloured pots for spider plants, and then tonight I started contemplating the merits of making "ribbons from the paidhi" (of the sort Bren hands out to the tour guests), and possibly framing them...

Re: ribbons and wax and seals, oh my

[cheyinka]

I think it's the... handcrafted nature of so much of the atevi world, at least at its upper levels? One gets the impression that nothing in Malguri except the gaslights came out of a factory of any sort, even if that's not actually the case. And then one looks around at one's own house, and at least in my case, realizes how little is handcrafted...

At one point, and I can't say it wasn't partially influenced by these books, I responded to an invitation "properly" (for American humans) rather than using the provided response card. The bride's mother called my mother to ask whether I would be coming alone or with my husband, because I hadn't sent back the response card and so she didn't know what my response meant. I was... amused and sad at the same time.