FOREIGNER: Discussion Post #2

[krait]

Welcome to chapters 1 & 2!

Commence discussion, now that we've met our Actual Protagonist(s?) for this trip!

1. Impressions of Bren so far? (If you can make such quick judgments on only two chapters?)

2. Thoughts about or observations on what we've suddenly been introduced to regarding the aiji's court and (now technologically further advanced) atevi society? Unlike Ian, Bren's right in the middle of it; what stands out to him, what stands out to you, and how much overlap is there? :D


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Regarding spoilers: how far along is everyone? I've read either all, or all but one, book; someone mentioned they were only as far as the third book; and I think one of us has never read any Cherryh before...? So far I've been trying to avoid spoilers for absolutely everything beyond our current reading point, so the "Spoiler Edition" post will follow this one.

Comments

and on that farm there was a o'oi-ana, e i e i o

[cheyinka]

As far as spoilers go, I've read the whole series, but I am really bad at remembering what happens when in a long series of books; doing it with only what has been 'officially' read so far makes it easier not to accidentally spoil later books.

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The first thing I noticed is that Bren is using the atevi word for the clicking bird or lizard or whatever (o'oi-ana); either the humans adopted the word, or he doesn't use the human word.

Next, of course, is the description of firing a pistol - it always delights me when that's done accurately. It also means that they're definitely more technologically advanced than M.'s time; a pistol that can just be pulled out from under a mattress and fired is not something that a culture that sees any advanced machine as clockwork is likely to produce.

Bren is obviously familiar with Banichi and Jago, but he's also afraid of them, and he clearly has no guards of his own, or the habit of keeping door-sized windows closed and locked at night, despite living somewhere that assassins are common - "Assassins, he understood; but that any ordinary assassin should come into the residential compound [...] nobody in their right mind would do that." Despite the whole, you know, living around assassins thing, he doesn't seem like he's normally afraid of things.

In the next section there's television, and servants bringing breakfast - which was dissonant then (not as much now - see my comment on the spoiler post) because, you know, modern handgun, television... servants as a matter of course? It's not even that they're the people who bring everyone on the garden court breakfast, because Bren thinks of them as his servants.

It made me wonder whether humans had servants, too; it seems strange for a culture with space-level technology to have them as a matter of course, and of course even if it was bizarre to Bren before, he's been the paidhi for a while, but it was another "this is an alien culture" moment for me.

Bren's pretty comfortable with walking right up to Tabini-aiji's chair, and Tabini's clearly comfortable enough with him to joke with him - not only is Bren enough of a presence that those who are normally at court don't take his alien-ness as noteworthy, he's got some kind of real relationship with Tabini. (I mean, if Tabini taking him shooting and giving him an illegal gun wasn't a sign of that already.)

He's comfortable enough as "the paidhi" that he doodles during the energy council meeting - though possibly that's because he can't speak in the meeting unless invited to do so (!). He's apparently very interested in making sure that the aiji of the Ragi stays in power and that the system doesn't become decentralized, which strikes me as weird and possibly a bad idea (why are humans preventing atevi from developing a less-centralized society? just so that humans don't get wiped out?)

On the other hand, he's still uncomfortable with atevi having man'chi instead of personal relationships, and repeatedly fails to interact 'normally' with Jago - on the other hand, she doesn't scare him like Banichi does, and he's not afraid of accidentally offending her.

As far as the rest of atevi society goes, apparently an armed society is a polite society, because there's one jail and four "labor-prisons" for three hundred million atevi, none of which seem overcrowded. Assassins must be licensed, and intent must be filed before an individual assassination is attempted. You have to "file on" someone before attempting to kill them. Tabini thought it was acceptable, though not the best course of action, for a woman to "register a feud" with her ex-husband.

And! It looks like the first paidhi was Ian - Bren remembers him as Bretano, but it seems like it'd be the same guy, even though that was 20+ years after first contact.

More commentary is at the spoiler post.

Thoughts so far!

[krait]

Things that stood out to me while reading:

1. Humans apparently are just as pacifistic as they were during Ian's time? Ian's thinking that the colony had pretty much nothing to pursue him with except some things designed to repel animals, and his complete lack of armament in the field (where presumably there might be animals) are an interesting mirror of Bren's general unfamiliarity with guns -- he's only had one for the last two weeks, and the aiji taught him to shoot, meaning it's not something he knew how to do before then. Which I suppose one could attribute to his not being legally allowed to have a firearm amongst atevi; but he doesn't have any stray thoughts about human marksmen he has known, or refer to hunting in any way (in fact, we find out humans are ordering packed meat from somewhere else, annoying the aiji); and the comment about "marksmanship was a hobby among atevi" seems pretty focused -- no "and some humans" in sight. Huh.

2. That said: I know little about shooting, but Bren came across as pretty awesome in those first few pages! From a sound sleep, based on a silhouette at night, he had the presence of mind to locate, aim, and fire a gun he's only had for a fortnight! Accurately enough to wound, too. I would guess most people take a lot longer to get used to something as a reflex; i.e. if I started keeping a gun beside my bed today and you suddenly woke me up a week later, I don't know that I would think to reach for the gun, not instinctively at least.

3. That sudden, initial competence is contrasted pretty sharply by everything that follows: no one will answer in any detail about an attempt on his own life; the aiji never warned him about potential attacks*; he has no vote or even voice in the legislature; he has very little "presence" in the court as a whole ('no one would want to kill him' ... except 'a lunatic') and lives in some out-of-the-way apartment near the servants' quarters; his servants are reassigned at random over his protests. And he has even less power amongst his own species than he does in atevi society. It's really strongly setting us up for SOMETHING, because why would this powerless person, however quick-reacting and linguistically gifted, have assassins climbing in his bedroom windows?

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*Honestly, the way this whole thing was phrased made me think we're being shown very strongly that Bren is naive/still not on perfect form recognising atevi behaviours.

And a handful of weeks ago Tabini had found unprecedented whimsy in arming him and giving him two hours of personal instruction at his personal retreat. They had joked, and shot melons on poles, and had supper together, and Tabini had had all the time he could possibly want to warn him if something was coming up

Arming someone in complete violation of your own law isn't a warning? The leader of a large and complex nation, whose personal attention is needed for just about everything that goes on, takes two whole weeks of vacation to give Bren gun training, and that's not a warning?

[spaceoperadiva]

I've read all but the final book. But it's been a while so I've forgotten stuff. I'll be reading along in the spoilerized versions too since theoretically I should know what's going to happen. :)

[blnchflr]

(Life is busy and stuff - will return Sunday with comments!)

[pebblerocker]

I got behind (already!) but I'm back on track now.

Something I didn't understand at all, and I don't know if it's because it wasn't explained clearly enough for me, or if I just missed information, or what: Why does Bren feel it "like a slap in the face" when Banichi says "We failed you tonight"? Clearly he's having a strong emotion but I can't tell where it's coming from, though it's tied to his throwing up. Is it that he's upset that Banichi and Jago let him down? Is it a sudden realisation that someone he trusted and looked up to is only "human"? Is he just embarrassed about having thrown up in front of Banichi, and/or thinking that Banichi wouldn't have spewed in reaction to the first time his life was threatened? It seems like a vital point of characterisation has gone right over my head.

I liked the scenery and scene-setting of the Bu-javid and the petitioners coming up the hill, their clothes and flowers and the stacks of papers with their ribbons and seals still an important ceremonial tradition despite computer records and the inconvenience of storing them. All very atmospheric!