FOREIGNER: Discussion Post #3, Spoiler Edition

[krait]

If you have discussion points for Chapters 3-4 you wish to bring up but which include spoilers, please post them here. Then link your comment in the general post, so those who want to avoid being spoiled can do so!

Comments

[krait]

it seems we've only encountered the cultures more traditionalist than the Ragi

Well, there's the whoever-they-are (forget the name, but it had three syllables) who don't object to preserved meats. (Wait: was that the Nisebi?)

And are the Edi really so traditional? All I remember about them is that through some quirk of history they don't have many aijiin of their own; their overlords tend to be Maschi or other ethnicities, which causes some tension. Lord Geigi's lot seem to get along with him pretty well, though, and he's hosting humans and rather space-positive/progressive, as I recall.

I don't know if we ever hear anything about languages specifically, but it makes sense that the East would speak a different language (or probably several) than the Ragi, since they don't seem to have any historic links to the Ragi/the West. (Ilisidi's little breeding project suggests that she's the first to really straddle the border with a hand held out to each side -- mostly, Malguri was just there to keep the East from invading, rather than associate with thim, or so Bren's history lesson there implied.) One would presume that those who wish to poke their noses in politics would have to learn Ragi, though, given the importance of the aishidi'tat.

children are warned against taking or touching thigns from strangers, which makes sense, except then Cajeiri will muse that minor children were totally off-limits in feuding

I hadn't recalled that! You have a superior memory. :D That's funny; wonder if it's a recent development, or if Cajeiri being offworld for two years influenced that? After all, Bren protests that a professional Assassin would surely have filed before attempting his rooms, and is told that there are always people who don't follow the rules...

And maybe there are situations that don't count as feuding. (Such as offing your sibling in order to inherit; or to prevent their forming an association you distrust!)

It struck me as interesting that despite being somewhere no human had ever been, Bren isn't worried that supper will accidentally poison him. Or breakfast, or lunch.

Do you think maybe he's starting to trust "his" servants already, despite their being new? Being in a strange new place might make them seem more familiar/trustworthy by comparison with the rumoured-dangerous dowager. Or maybe he thinks Banichi and Jago are supervising ALL things to do with the paidhi? (If so, I think he's right.)

[cheyinka]

Yeah, the atevi who don't object to preserving meat are the Nisebi. The Edi struck me as really traditional mostly because they were ruled by the incredibly elderly Grandmother of the Edi, they were only really willing to talk to Ilisidi as "Grandmother of the East" (I am pretty sure that's how they referred to her), and, well, they're country folks. It could be a misinterpretation on my part! :)

It does make sense that the East would speak a different language, but we just don't encounter them speaking non-Ragi ever again, as far as I remember! I'm thinking especially of Deliverer and Ilisidi and Bren's visit to Drien - if Drien could have excluded Bren by speaking in a different dialect, I have no doubt she'd have tried doing so. I think we get hints that the Edi might speak Edi, but we don't hear anything about the East speaking... Easti.

& Cajeiri's musing about minors being off-limits was while he was in the dungeon cell in Deliverer - it's a very "I'm a MINOR! They can't do this to me! Killing my dad would have made me very mad, but at least that would have been kabiu!" moment. There's also a moment in one of the books later than Deliverer where something happens to a child (I don't remember what, as I don't own any books past Deliverer) and everyone's angry because you just don't do that. So it was weird that Bren would think about kids being warned "don't eat any candy a stranger gives you" if "everybody knows" you don't harm kids. (I mean, obviously, there's the generic stranger-danger stuff, but Bren's thinking it in the context of "atevi poison other atevi, it's what they do", isn't he?)

[krait]

Huh!

Wonder if Cherryh changed her mind on that, or was trying to "humanise" the atevi somewhat as the series runs on? Because that does sound odd when contrasted with their strict policy of teach-'em-paranoia-while-they're-young!

(I can see that, no matter whether it's group or alone, I'm going to have to keep up the re-read through the whole series! Can't believe I could have forgotten something like that, coming from Cajeiri. Sheesh.)