FOREIGNER: Discussion Post #7, Spoiler Edition

[krait]

If you have discussion points for Chapters 14-16 you wish to bring up but which include spoilers for future books, please post them here. Then link your comment in the general post, so those who want to avoid being spoiled can do so!

Comments

[cheyinka]

""He's no more than a kid," one [of the rebels] said in dismay." So an ateva will feel compelled to protect even an enemy kid - of course, then the other corrects him and lets him know humans are just child-sized. Cajeiri didn't get that kind of reaction unless he was pretending to be ill, though, so it might be Bren's battered state that contributed to the rebel's dismay.

Meanwhile Bren's back to "I like being alone, in the snow, on a mountain". Sigh. At least in this book when he talks to his government he tries to sound like he works for them?

[krait]

I noticed that, too -- the "no more than a kid" and corresponding reluctance to lay violent hands on Bren. Interesting point about Bren's less-than-intact condition; hadn't thought about that, but it makes sense -- it'd be easier to grab a "kid" who looks ready to run away from you, but I think most people have an instinctive aversion to seeing children harmed, and while atevi don't have human emotions, that's basic evolutionary sense for any species that invests in significant amounts of parental care.

in this book when he talks to his government he tries to sound like he works for them?

Heh, yes, he does make a basic effort! Erm, very basic. But then, I sort of wonder if he's ever really had it driven home to him before now how little the Foreign Office cares whether he lives or dies... Obviously, he knows it intellectually ("paidhiin are expendable"), but that's a far step from sitting in the dark, hiding in weeds, and knowing that if you died on the spot your superiors would send an polite note to your mother and then send in your replacement without ever making any effort to find out if you were still alive. *grimace*

[cheyinka]

Right, yes, even if he weren't doing the "I don't like people, and by people I mean human people, and by human people I mean my family and my girlfriend" thing, finding out that the Foreign Office just sent in a replacement and then didn't bother checking up on that replacement when she dropped into a black hole would have altered how much he wanted to sound like one of them. :p

(That was quite a sentence.)

[krait]

This comment is part of this thread regarding shifts in Bren's perceived man'chi.

I'm pretty sure that, in the later books (late second, or third trilogy?) there's some mention of Bren possessing man'chi to both Ilisidi and Tabini; or being perceived as part of Ilisidi's associates!

If my rereading gets that far, I'll come back and make a note of it, since my memory is sadly lacking. :p

[krait]

This comment is part of my general comment about the numbers of the plane's passengers and crew.

I found a strong resonance between the ateva protesting/reframing the plane's complement as "up to" ten -- meaning fortunate nine -- and the adults around Cajeiri who protested, then reframed his eighth birthday as turning "completely seven" when he insisted on a party. :D

[cheyinka]

Yes, even when I nitpick about how Cherryh hasn't fully developed her numbers thing yet (or probably hadn't, or didn't want to overwhelm the reader), things like that are a nice touch. It's ten-and-crew, too, isn't it? So it's ten + single item, making it a felicitous number grammatically. :D

[cheyinka]

Now that you've reminded me of that reframing, I wish I knew anyone in person who liked these books, so I could cheerfully tell them that I am turning completely twenty-seven today. :D

[krait]

Felicitations and good wishes!

Not to mention what a coincidence: you are much more fortunate than myself, who will be twenty-nine tomorrow. (Which, come to it, is an atevi number-workaround that would pass completely unnoticed amongst humans -- we often say "I'll be [age] in [near time]" instead of giving a number, when the time is within a week or two!)

[cheyinka]

Ah, but you will celebrate a fortunate birthday, with good fortune expected for the year to come, whereas I merely celebrated the completion of a fortunate year. :D

(I wonder whether zero is fortunate or unfortunate, and whether infant atevi are in their zeroth year...)