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FOREIGNER: Discussion Post #6
This is the discussion post for chapter 9-13.
I am now heartily wishing that I'd looked at chapter content as well as at page-counts, when setting up the reading schedule! (I thought even then it might bite me, and it has!) This reading was composed of a hundred pounds of action, a hundred pounds of disconnected info-bites, a thousand pounds of questions, and half a gram of explanations! My brain was churning faster than Babsidi's legs, but reached even fewer coherent thoughts than Bren manages.
On the other hand: yay, mecheiti icon becomes more appropriate than ever! :D
I am now heartily wishing that I'd looked at chapter content as well as at page-counts, when setting up the reading schedule! (I thought even then it might bite me, and it has!) This reading was composed of a hundred pounds of action, a hundred pounds of disconnected info-bites, a thousand pounds of questions, and half a gram of explanations! My brain was churning faster than Babsidi's legs, but reached even fewer coherent thoughts than Bren manages.
On the other hand: yay, mecheiti icon becomes more appropriate than ever! :D
with my own mecheita icon...
And then he muses that he likes Ilisidi. Bad Bren! No cookie (alkaloid-free or not) for you!
Huh. They do hunt on Mospheira, and Bren's been - though from the mention of "small game, very small", I get the impression of small-bore rifle, which is a very different thing from a pistol that'll stop a human or atevi.
Cenedi gives Bren a reason not to expect Banichi or Jago to come running, and Bren buys it right away. Sigh.
And the letter from Tabini! "If it was you behind the assassination in his bedroom, here's a chance to do it or not do it." Ugh. On the other hand, this proves that the attempt in Bren's apartment wasn't a setup on Tabini's part to see which way Bren would jump. Maybe.
It also proves that it's Tabini's doing that keeps Bren's guards away much more than they should be and more than they'll ever be in later books - he's trying to see what Ilisidi will do, just like Banichi gave Cenedi a chance to kill him.
And then the interrogation. It's interesting that Mospheira wants paidhiin to commit suicide. Here's another reason to send Bren away prior to attacking Mospheira: to provide the reason to do so. (Not that Tabini was doing that, mind you; but Bren should have been much more afraid of the television interview at the time than he was.)
Interesting that Bren yells for Banichi and Tano, not Banichi and Jago. Is he yelling for the leaders of the guard pairs?
Okay, so Tabini took Bren shooting before this crisis was known, so that wasn't a specific warning.
I was wondering whether an ateva would protect his aiji by lying for him the way Bren lied for Tabini - apparently that's the case, but nobody expected Bren, who doesn't feel man'chi, to do so.
Whew. I'm only at the end of chapter 11 - these chapters move so fast, and are so full of events, that it seems longer already than the "normal" discussion length. Off on mecheiti, again.
How might "taking the obvious course" count as betrayal? Is it fourteen words for betrayal (sigh), or is it betrayal+modifier01, betrayal+modifier02 ... betrayal+modifier14? Why would they not teach the paidhiin at least a felicitous number of words? Is something added or subtracted that previous paidhiin didn't realize was superfluous or missing, since the total didn't feel infelicitous to them?
And then Bren acts like an ateva with man'chi to Banichi - like he's the guard - and runs after him. It's a thing that's totally appropriate for a human commander ("I won't leave any of you behind, men!") but completely inexplicable to an atevi. I really felt Bren's hurt confusion at everyone treating him like a lunatic. :/
Aww, mecheiti screaming and getting put down :(
Re: with my own mecheita icon...
Thank you! I couldn't tell, from context, what might be involved -- popping rabbits with BB guns, or what? My knowledge of guns being limited to "point the tube part away from self". :D
Bren's "small, very small" game might be a further point in favour of Mospheira being mountainous? I do remember his first sight of mecheiti, and that he said Mospheira didn't have anything that size...
So Mospheirans still don't have much-if-anything by way of serious weaponry, not in the hands of the average citizen -- rather like it was in Bretano's time! (They do have island-wide type defences, though -- Bren's thought that "an old man in a rowboat" couldn't reach Mospheira unnoticed says as much.)
How might "taking the obvious course" count as betrayal? Is it fourteen words for betrayal (sigh), or is it betrayal+modifier01,
My personal headcanon? "Taking the obvious course" = "leaving an association that no longer benefits you" = "severing ties with an aiji whose association is counter to your interests" = "withdrawing man'chi from an aiji" = "betrayal".
I suspect there's probably a combination: three or four base words, say (betrayal-by-having-a-higher-man'chi, betrayal-by-self-interest, and betrayal-by-unexpected-development-with-no-prior-intent), and then modifiers for those depending on, oh, the difference in levels of man'chi involved (atevi are instinctive mathematicians), the severity of the damage done (from total destruction of the aiji's power to minor inconvenience), etc.
Aww, mecheiti screaming
It's silly, but like Bren I've become rather attached to Babs and Nokhada!
Re: thoughts and reactions, chapters 9-11
I like your headcanon on what "taking the obvious course" means. I still think that if there's a combination, the end result is still probably a favorable number, even if that means one of them is essentially meaningless, like "betrayal that doesn't actually harm anyone" or something. :D
Re: thoughts and reactions, chapters 9-11
There's probably an entire subset (words or modifiers, or both) dealing with sexual partners and married couples, which Bren wouldn't know due to atevi reticence on such things, so the numbers may well come out favourably. :D
Actually, the same could be said regarding parent/child relationships, since that's another area where atevi are exceedingly tight-lipped, and we know it involves some major shifts in man'chi over the course of the child's growth. Lots of potential for betrayals there!
Re: thoughts and reactions, chapters 9-11
Re: thoughts and reactions, chapters 9-11
Right -- after all, one doesn't speak of such things in casual conversation (which is, frankly, all Bren HAS with humans by that point), so Bren's hardly going to be able to explain to them why he suddenly has some updates for the dictionary... :D
And you're right, he still may not know them -- after all, even if they're willing to talk to him about some taboo things, like the numbers of technology, they still may not be comfortable discussing their sex lives and the political ramifications thereof with an alien, even a polite one.