FOREIGNER: Discussion Post #4, Spoiler Edition

[krait]

If you have discussion points for Chapters 5-6 you wish to bring up but which include spoilers, please post them here. Then link your comment in the general post, so those who want to avoid being spoiled can do so!

Comments

[krait]

SPOILERS for later books in the series; this comment is part of this thread about the dowager's invitation.



I was struck by the huge difference in the way Bren's security works here, compared to later books!

The Banichi/Jago/Tano/Algini quartet would NEVER leave Bren unsupervised and unprotected (personally, not just by wires/surveillance) in, say, Book Seven.

It's really shocking and strange to me, when rereading, to see this big gap in the paidhi's security! Are Banichi and Jago et al newer at the idea of having to continuously cover someone? (It seems Tano and Algini were brought in because they have appropriate security clearances, so if Bren's old servants were also security, this would be a new partnership for B&J to adjust to; or, if the old servants weren't security at all, Banichi and Jago might not be accustomed to working as a foursome -- maybe there's some friction over the added numbers?

Maybe Tabini hasn't made the entire situation clear to them, regarding just what Bren might or might not know (and how vital it is to find out)?
There's some deep shifting of man'chi going on with that transition! I can't imagine Tabini's guards ever letting anything create a security gap of any duration; are Bren's security team just not accustomed to thinking of their mild-mannered, kid-sized charge being important enough that ducking out for an hour or two could have significant consequences? But Tabini's guards have man'chi directly to him; Bren's just informed us that his servants (and presumably his security is included) don't have man'chi to him, but to Tabini... whereas they seem to regard him as their direct authority by the middle of the series-so-far, to the point that Tabini tells them not to come back from a mission if they'd be coming back without Bren.

Can a human really inspire/hold man'chi? What a fascinating research paper THAT would make for Bren... :D

Maybe because they themselves don't know exactly what the fuss is? How well-informed are they regarding the issues that have dragged Bren across the continent?

[spaceoperadiva]

In retrospect, there are so many hints here, both that something "truly catastrophic" as Bren puts it, is going on, and exactly what 'Sidi is up to as well. It's all about the man'chi, isn't it? Though I never guessed even with the great foreshadowing sprinkled in from the very beginning what the "catastrophic" happening really was.

I loved: "Nadi Bren. I wish you'd consult before decisions."

[krait]

It's all about the man'chi, isn't it?

Definitely! And Bren's is right in the centre of it all. I keep wondering, as I read, what all the poor atevi around him are thinking -- How much does he know, and why is he being so cagey? He's very skilled at playing ignorant; was that a slip just now, though? What has he been told? What have his own kind told him to tell us? -- and trying to guess at their surmises every time Bren has one of those fraught, half-obscure conversations.

(Good grief, what poor Jago must be thinking! Between that "we call it a test of character" / "so do we" exchange, and his later fumbling that comes to close to a proposition, her head's probably spinning!


I loved: "Nadi Bren. I wish you'd consult before decisions."

Haha, I can just picture the face Bren had to refrain from making, there. :P That's got to be the sign of A+ paidhi material, there -- anyone who can manage not to make the retort Bren wanted to make deserves top marks, for sure!

[cheyinka]

It seems a human really could inspire it, because one inspires it by succeeding, right? By making a grand gesture and having it work? So Bren, the most willing to "go native" so far except maybe for Ian, is the most likely to be able to inspire it - but then he won't feel it, he won't have the visceral reaction to seeing someone else have man'chi to him, and he won't have man'chi to anyone.

I concur that the quartet leaving Bren unaccompanied is really strange. Like I said on the non-spoiler post, there had to have been a way for a gentleman to accept an invitation that included his security, but Bren didn't know what it was, or know that it was expected that he do that - did he insult Banichi et al again by not including him in the acceptance?

[cheyinka]

Anyone who can both refrain from making a retort and from making a face that would say it without words is... much more disciplined than I am! Of course, we get hints that his relationship with Barb, even now, is strained by his having to stop being expressionless and stop phrasing everything carefully and perfectly once he's back on Mospheira...

the repeated WTF of this book:

[cheyinka]

Tano isn't licensed? How in the world is that possible, given what we know about him later? It *must* be either Jago lying (permissible, and possible), or a retcon (understandable), or there's a way to be an Assassin and not, you know, eligible to take contracts, or something. Don't we learn later that Tano and Algini's man'chi was to the Guildmaster first, Tabini second, and then was to the Guildmaster first, Bren second, and only much later was to Bren first?

[cheyinka]

Reading about bihawa (the aggressive impulse) really makes me wonder about the intruder in Bren's garden apartment. If a "bracing" tea that might have made an ateva a little queasy was a test, then I am left with the possibility that Tabini might have arranged a fright for Bren, too.