krait: dark-skinned alien in armour (Foreigner - security)
[personal profile] krait
If you have discussion points for Chapters 3-4 you wish to bring up but which include spoilers, please post them here. Then link your comment in the general post, so those who want to avoid being spoiled can do so!

Date: 2011-06-09 10:25 pm (UTC)
cheyinka: An ateva riding a mecheita through the snow. (atevi)
From: [personal profile] cheyinka
I liked that he was afraid of Ilisidi even before he left Shejidan - really set a nice tone for their first meeting. It makes me wonder if the only atevi Bren can relate to are the ones who frighten him on some level...

On the "he's still a baby paidhi" front, when he thinks of his two original servants he thinks "he liked them, even if they probably wouldn't understand that idea," rather than "he liked them, even though that was a human emotion" or the like.

Do we ever hear of the Nisebi again? It's not ringing any bells, and it seems we've only encountered the cultures more traditionalist than the Ragi - the Edi and the whatever Ilisidi is, the "East" I guess.

Do we ever hear of the Malguri-area residents speaking a different language than Ragi, either? I don't remember that at all, but Maigi and Djinana are either intentionally excluding Bren or that got dropped when Bren started spending a lot of time around Ilisidi et al.

It struck me as interesting that despite being somewhere no human had ever been, Bren isn't worried that supper will accidentally poison him. Or breakfast, or lunch. It's not until Cenedi gives him a cup of tea that he worries. (And apparently children are warned against taking and touching things from strangers, which makes sense, except then Cajeiri will muse that minor children were totally off-limits in feuding, many books from now...)

Date: 2011-06-12 01:17 am (UTC)
cheyinka: An ateva riding a mecheita through the snow. (atevi)
From: [personal profile] cheyinka
Yeah, the atevi who don't object to preserving meat are the Nisebi. The Edi struck me as really traditional mostly because they were ruled by the incredibly elderly Grandmother of the Edi, they were only really willing to talk to Ilisidi as "Grandmother of the East" (I am pretty sure that's how they referred to her), and, well, they're country folks. It could be a misinterpretation on my part! :)

It does make sense that the East would speak a different language, but we just don't encounter them speaking non-Ragi ever again, as far as I remember! I'm thinking especially of Deliverer and Ilisidi and Bren's visit to Drien - if Drien could have excluded Bren by speaking in a different dialect, I have no doubt she'd have tried doing so. I think we get hints that the Edi might speak Edi, but we don't hear anything about the East speaking... Easti.

& Cajeiri's musing about minors being off-limits was while he was in the dungeon cell in Deliverer - it's a very "I'm a MINOR! They can't do this to me! Killing my dad would have made me very mad, but at least that would have been kabiu!" moment. There's also a moment in one of the books later than Deliverer where something happens to a child (I don't remember what, as I don't own any books past Deliverer) and everyone's angry because you just don't do that. So it was weird that Bren would think about kids being warned "don't eat any candy a stranger gives you" if "everybody knows" you don't harm kids. (I mean, obviously, there's the generic stranger-danger stuff, but Bren's thinking it in the context of "atevi poison other atevi, it's what they do", isn't he?)

Date: 2011-06-09 11:27 pm (UTC)
spaceoperadiva: little jellical cat in a sink (Default)
From: [personal profile] spaceoperadiva
The poisonous tea is one of my favorite scenes from the whole series. Bren knows better than to eat or drink strange things without careful inquiry, but he's so tired/disoriented he simply isn't thinking well and the consequences for that can be pretty dire. Ilisidi is one of my favorite characters, and this whole mistaken tea thing is a wicked and wonderful introduction.

Bren does seem disconnected from human society, but one supposes that's a hazard of his job, both in training and in execution. It would take a special kind of personality to want to go live alone among a foreign species, and Bren himself muses on the hazards of getting too disconnected from humanity based on the effect on previous padhi.

I want to live in this castle. Not for the gilt covered everything, but for the stone castle next to the lake and the mists and the rain and the mecheiti.

Date: 2011-06-10 12:12 am (UTC)
cheyinka: An ateva riding a mecheita through the snow. (atevi)
From: [personal profile] cheyinka
Yeah, Bren's been going on hardly any sleep for days, and he's clearly intimidated by Ilisidi - not that she didn't intend to intimidate him, of course.

I don't know if I want to live in Malguri, but I'd happily spend a week there, for exactly those reasons.

Date: 2011-06-12 01:19 am (UTC)
cheyinka: An ateva riding a mecheita through the snow. (atevi)
From: [personal profile] cheyinka
Given that they think of alkaloid stimulants as a pleasing zing in their tea, they probably do run more amped up than a human would, though I don't know whether that should mean they need to sleep more deeply or not. Hmm.

Date: 2011-06-14 04:20 pm (UTC)
cheyinka: An ateva riding a mecheita through the snow. (atevi)
From: [personal profile] cheyinka
I bet they must get lessons like that, even if they don't sleep more deeply / more heavily / more intensely / more somethingly. It seems like it'd make sense, if the base unit of a personal guard is four persons, and it's normally two on, two off, but sometimes all four go...

Spoiler for the most recent book in the series:

Date: 2011-06-15 09:45 pm (UTC)
cheyinka: An ateva riding a mecheita through the snow. (atevi)
From: [personal profile] cheyinka
So we know Tabini isn't putting Bren somewhere safe while he wrecks Mospheira; it wouldn't make sense to do it out of fondness, and if he's planning on wrecking Mospheira, why would he need a paidhi?

On the other hand...

[spoiler]


The office of 'paidhi' predated humanity; it was an emissary from one lord to another, who would negotiate on his lord's behalf but also try to act in the foreign lord's interest as well. Since Bren is clearly pretty good at being a human-atevi paidhi, it's not impossible that Tabini would have wanted to use him as a paidhi to another lord, especially since, as a human, he would be obviously completely neutral.

[end spoiler]

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